To say Paul Sammon and Allison Duncan know research will be a major understatement.  They live research and love it.  Paul and Allison bring more than 50 years of working for major magazine research companies and magazine media, the likes of DJG Marketing, MRI, and Advanstar.

The two of them are as passionate as the clients they are working for:  passionate publishers in the small to midsize magazines.  Paul and Allison refer to themselves as “Data Connectors.”  They are not only data collectors; they know how to analyze customers’ answers and they know how to connect those answers to the relevant and necessary needs of their clients.

All in One Insights is not afraid of AI and what it can do.  The two of them are not worried about dipping their toes in AI because they know for sure that “The one thing it doesn’t seem to do is define compelling points of difference.”  And delivering those points of difference is one major asset that they can provide their clients.

If you are in need for help in your magazine media research, on all the fronts of magazine making, you need to read this interview with the president and chief operating officer of the new firm All in One Insights.

And now for the lightly edited interview with Paul Sammon, president, and Allison Duncan, Chief Operating Officer, All in One Insights, but first the soundbites:

On the mission of All in One Insights: “Delivering (research) with high quality and with all the pieces of the puzzle … research, sales, marketing, editorial, consumer marketing, and making sure that it’s something they can feel good about across the whole brand footprint.”

On the clients of All in One Insights: “Passion-based publishers, where we used to call them simply vertical interests, but they can be very small.”

On what All in One Insights deliver its clients: “Making sure we give them ways to understand themselves better, whether that be editorial differences, newer readers preferring different content than longstanding readers.”

On their promise to clients: “Making sure that they understand the role we’re looking to play, again, to that data connector, not just collector, is making sure they come away with an insight across all their platforms.”

On the goal of forming All in One Insights: “Our goal in forming All in One Insights is to be the external resource, but to give them a very internal feel.”

On whether AI plays a role in All in One Insights:  “I think right now that’s not quite a part of our story yet. For All in One, it’s also a matter of we’re just still connecting with our clients on a very intimate level.”

On what AI can’t deliver: “The key element there is the one thing we’re not seeing AI really very capable of doing is developing the texture and the personality side.”

More on what AI can’t deliver: “The one thing it doesn’t seem to do is define compelling points of difference.”

On their belief in print: “People are just so caught up in the reading the big headline of print is dead and it’s not. There’s a story that’s happening with it. It’s just a matter of, it’s a new print.”

On whether the research is done for the sake of marketing or journalism: . One of the things that’s changed a great deal in the past five for sure, is 90% of our survey work now incorporates the editorial team in the conversation where virtually everyone we did years ago was extremely driven by an advertising outcome.”

On what they consider their number one job: “Our first and foremost job is to listen to somebody, listen to their struggles.”

On what keeps Paul up at night: “Trying to find the unique question we can pose to clients that closes the gap for them.”

On what keeps Allison up at night: “I’ll make the joke of it. It’s plane fares. You keep seeing planes tossing and turning and I have no fear of flying. And I’m like, ooh, really?”

And now for the lightly edited interview with Paul Sammon, president, and Allison Duncan, Chief Operating Officer, All in One Insights:

Samir Husni: Give me the elevator pitch for All-in-One Insights.

Paul Sammon:  I think the key thing that when we started crafting this, it was a matter of really being there for our clients, for what they needed, not about us, not about what we could do per se in terms of our capabilities, but just fulfilling the needs they had.

The big benefit we see that we’re presenting ourselves as “Data Connectors”, not just simply data collectors. Realistically, they can all have research from many options, and we want to be the one that’s delivering it with high quality and with all the pieces of the puzzle … research, sales, marketing, editorial, consumer marketing, and making sure that it’s something they can feel good about across the whole brand footprint.

Samir Husni:  When you talk about clients, who are your clients? Define client for me.

Paul Sammon: Sure. Most of their backbone meshes well with our experience as well, is many of them are, in the vein of small, medium, independent publishers, predominantly. I would say, for lack of a better category, passion-based publishers, where we used to call them simply vertical interests, but they can be very small.

Something so full of passion, really makes our hearts sing to get the chance to work with it. I think the one other area that’s become very plain to us is the membership association publishing sector. It’s such a different model, but there is so much engagement inherent in those broader relationships that they’re needing that assistance for the insights they can get for a lot of different reasons, membership retention, acquisition, editorial.

In traditional terms, they actually rely less on the advertising side that would be more the traditional reason you do a media research study.

Samir Husni: So, if I come to you as a small publisher that have, let’s say, a city magazine, let’s say The Boca Raton Observer or Memphis, what can you tell me you can provide me to help me sustain and increase my reach?

Paul Sammon: I think the key elements are making sure we give them ways to understand themselves better, whether that be editorial differences, newer readers preferring different content than longstanding readers.

It’s particularly germane in the city regional space where you’ll have the always desperate desire to bring on new readers, but they may actually come to you for very different reasons. We’ve seen that very clearly in work we’ve done. The other side of it is making sure that they understand the role we’re looking to play, again, to that data connector, not just collector, is making sure they come away with an insight across all their platforms.

There are such graphic differences in the way that those, when we measure them, ask the same question, we will see different answers across those platforms. A newsletter reader who engages with other elements, so that’s one, it’s providing them with a lens across the full brand platform. It goes back to something I think you’ve interviewed her a number of times, you’ve been dear friends with her for a long, long time, is Bonnie Kintzer at the Digest.

Obviously, I’m an alum of it. I spent nine years there. She and I became friends, but one of the things she really put forth was making sure what you did was to deliver content wherever the reader wanted to consume it – not simply where the publisher did.

She used the word agnostic to just say success wasn’t measured by a digital platform driving someone to a print subscription, that the essence of what you were doing was just providing them the means to consume you, however they felt most comfortable. The good news for us is on a research site, we see that when there are more than one channel engaged, it absolutely makes an enormous difference. There’s more love of the brand, there’s more engagement with the brand, simple strong things like travelers traveling more, fishermen fishing more.

Allison Duncan: It’s a way to amplify the magazine media platform they start with. I think part of what we set out to do this is so many of these, as you were describing, the small to medium-sized publishers, are not able to go to the big research companies. They won’t look at them at this point simply because unless you have mid to high five figures, they’re not interested in those projects.

We saw the struggle, especially being where Paul came from. We saw that inability to connect with them, but they still need data and solutions. Our goal in forming All in One Insights is to be the external resource, but to give them a very internal feel. We want to be their external internal resource is how we sometimes put it to them. We want them to be able to feel like they can reach out to us if they have a particular question. If they have a potential advertiser and they just need something quick in the field, that’s going to be five questions just to get an RFP out the door.

We want to build that relationship with them. Of course, we want to do their bigger study for them, but we also want that feeling that they can come to us on a smaller ad hoc basis too. We had that discussion just yesterday where a seasonal circumstance, clients looking to do the full reader study, all important elements for the ad sales team, for the editorial team, membership as well, but one of the things they noted that they have a particular high point in the very early part of the year where the activity around this particular point of interest is very high, but they didn’t want to wait that long to do the research work.

It was very comfortable for us to volunteer to be there to be able to execute something that’s considerably smaller, tighter, but right within that window of time that would matter most for them. Again, that kind of flexibility is baked into the way we want to do what we’re doing.

Samir Husni: Do you see AI as the data collector and you as the data connector?

Allison Duncan: It’s interesting. Certainly something that we’ve been dipping our toes into in the sense of reaching out, understanding what some of this AI looks like in the sense of you now have panels that are basically built upon it. I think eventually it’s going to take over more. Most of our clients at this point have their own built-in respondents.

So for an affordability standpoint at this point, we’re not having clients having to reach out yet to learn about who can be their potential new target audience. We haven’t had to really do that in a little while. We’ve done that previously with other clients.

We haven’t seen that come up lately. So right now we haven’t really had to go that route, but we’ve definitely been through a couple of pitches from some of the panel companies with the AI predictability panels. And I think eventually we’re going to end up looking towards it and using it.

Paul Sammon: I think right now that’s not quite a part of our story yet. For All in One, it’s also a matter of we’re just still connecting with our clients on a very intimate level. It’s a circumstance where the conversation, what they’ll divulge to us about a challenge for example a city & regional entity told us about a conversation they’re having with a celebration that’s happening and the nature of such event.

His charge to us, as much as we’re still talking about doing a full reader study, was how can I take advantage of the fact this celebration’s occurring? It is very logical we should be a part of it. How might we become a part of it? And I think that there’s opportunity in some of the bigger learning to understand. There’s 47 different events that’ll happen around it. Maybe query AI to see which ones fit best.

Allison touched on a neat point, one of the blessings of working with indie magazine media platforms is that they do own their own sample base. Their subscriber file is something remarkably unique in the world of market research. Traditionally, you’re having to reach out to some external entity to learn.

Similarly, though, we’ve got clients who are looking to grow. And I think we’ll be looking at AI to kind of help us expand. What’s the best definition of that? If we’re looking at concentric circles and the core being as tight and good as it is, the next one they understand.

But what are those other rings? Where might we be able to expand reasonably? These tend to be clients with modest budgets to do these things. So it’s really having someone like ourselves help guide their hand and understand what’s reasonable and what’s not.

Samir Husni: If I can use AI, do I need research?

Paul Sammon:  The key element there is the one thing we’re not seeing AI really very capable of doing is developing the texture and the personality side. I think it will always be useful in the realm of a hard data points. Do you do this? What are the demography elements in that? I think the key thing is that when an ad sales conversation is going well and there’s research underneath it, it helped inform better storytelling.

That’s yet the place we’re seeing AI contribute much because it’s not the emotional side of the conversation. There’s not a lot of texture to that. AI will reach to that common denominator and it can be done in an accurate manner.

The one thing it doesn’t seem to do is define compelling points of difference. An element there that really stands out, I had the experience back prior to be working with five golf magazines at the same time. They are generally the same gender, age, income, and education.

There’s very little difference. I formally worked at an automotive enthusiast title, very much the same thing. The advertiser would always ask you, well, why should I be with you instead of them? And it was really helping bring out a texture, a story, some compelling point of difference that was about an attitude.

That’s not quite yet what we’re seeing coming out of an AI conversation. It doesn’t mean it won’t be down the road. If you ask those provocative questions to a wine enthusiast magazine as to when did you first fall in love with wine? We’re really not going to get any kind of good answer out of an AI circumstance with that. I think AI will come into our lives potentially down the road when we start the idea of possibly building products to possibly bring to clients eventually.

Allison Duncan: But we’re still at the building stage. We’re still trying to, we’re getting our feet wet. And right now our main focus and goal is to really just get in the trenches with our clients and to really get an understanding because it’s such a changing landscape and it’s an exciting landscape.

People are just so caught up in the reading the big headline of print is dead and it’s not. There’s a story that’s happening with it. It’s just a matter of, it’s a new print.

It’s an evolving print, but it’s truly strong. And there’s a youthfulness happening with it too that needs to be celebrated.

Samir Husni: So Allison, with this new print is marketing more important than journalism or journalism more important than marketing? How do you balance between the two? Are we seeing more marketing than journalism taking place?

Allison Duncan:  I think you have them intertwined.

In a certain way, I think you have marketing that’s looking like journalism and journalism that’s looking like marketing. That’s half of influencing is the pseudo, both of them at times, there’s a pseudo intellectualism at times that happens. And sometimes it’s a little bit of both.

There’s a provocativeness to it that makes you think, and isn’t that essentially journalism at times? And yet it drives you to look at something, buy something, do something, and that’s marketing. So I think it’s an interesting time for that. And there’s an evolution.

The younger consumers, who takes in this stuff, definitely needs something different than per se, the three of us sitting on this call.

Paul Sammon: Having grown up where I did work at Reader’s Digest, there was a literal separation of church and state. And the nature of that was never violated.

But as time passed, you could see the beginnings of a cooperative relationship and an understanding where if you valued the quality of the journalism coming into the process, you would find things like native advertising occurring with some quality attached to it, as opposed to just shilling for something. I think also too that is marketing, Alison really nailed it, was the inextricably interwoven nature is that if marketing programs are generally going to be better when they’re more well-informed, and that’s largely our role with the research, but most important is you’re going to express that outbound. And that just leads to more buyer confidence.

They see relevance in the discussion. They trust what you’re saying. I think in it all, no matter what you do, if you violate that trust, you’ve lost.

So as they’re all respectfully understanding what each other are contributing to the process, I think it’s a healthy thing. If it goes too far off in any one direction, probably not so much.

Samir Husni: So if I hire you as a client, do you help me with your research to enhance my journalism and my marketing?

Paul Sammon: Absolutely. One of the things that’s changed a great deal in the past eight years, or past five for sure, is 90% of our survey work now incorporates the editorial team in the conversation where virtually everyone we did years ago was extremely driven by an advertising outcome. Typically back then, we were looking, let’s say[PS1] , if you were fishing, we wanted to know how often, what you spent and what type you do. Functionally though now, it’s helping Editorial teams as well, delivering insights on content preferences by their various channels.  Ad sales teams still get what they need – and we’re able to deliver more insights across more of the organization.

It absolutely is part of virtually every piece of work we do now. And little techniques that we’re learning along the way, which seem like simple questions about just how long have you been a reader of this magazine? That drives an amazing level of understanding that if you just didn’t ask that question, you would never know, but simply a newer reader, we were dealing with a city regional magazine that came to suddenly understand it wasn’t about “age”. It was more about “term” … have you been a reader for less than five years, simply had them looking for more entertainment, similar to kind of the elements online that would give you guidance to where to go eat, where to stay, where to visit, where to have fun.

Whereas that well, long-term reader looked for completely different things. So it was interesting to do that. Odd part for us was you’re having this discussion with the publisher, the advertising, the editorial, and all of a sudden the consumer marketing people became involved because how long have you been a reader, inform their discussions about recruitment of new readers, retentions of existing ones.

They’re trying to make more out of the investment they’re making with us. So, you respond by trying to do more for the element that they’re looking for the most.

Samir Husni: Excellent.  Before I ask you my typical last questions, is there any question I failed to ask you,  anything you would like me to ask, or anything you’d like to add?

Paul Sammon: I think we touched on the most important parts. The key piece for us is that Allison touched on it earlier is that we have a genuine passion for the space we occupy.

It is literally fun working with publishers. We’ve joined on with ACP, the Association of Community Publishers, the CRMA, and are sponsors of Niche Media. All of their stories are incredibly unique and different and that excites us.

Obviously, having spent elements of my career at some of the largest media brands there are, love them dearly, learned a lot, but we both really have a lot of passion for small/medium sized publishers. Those people also don’t tend to have the staffs that we represent. We’re the help they can hire to be all these years of experience, having seen all these various discussions.

Watch them wrestle with things as simple as, I’m looking at digital subscriptions, but nobody seems to be terribly excited about it. What’s the difference? Are they different people? What do I need to do to simply mechanically boost open rates so that more people take it on? I think we get the chance to be enmeshed in so much more, very broadly, very deeply though. That’s a big part of it.

Allison Duncan:  One of the greatest things we get to do is, one of the things is just getting to sit, listen. That’s our first job. Our first and foremost job is to listen to somebody, listen to their struggles.

They’re struggling and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that and listening to what they’re looking for, what they’re needing. The best thing that we can do, given the years of experience we have, which is quite a few rotations around the sun, a few more than we like to admit sometimes, but to then bring in what we know.

That doesn’t mean that you force your nature upon the client, but our goal is to become that trusted advisor to them and to bring that experience and to give them even more than they even expected. Our job is to give us the Christmas list and they’re not always going to get everything on that Christmas list because we only have a certain amount of time with a respondent. Our goal is to get the most out of that respondent in the best way because that’s such a special interaction and we never take it for granted.

A respondent is a truly special thing to us and we never want to alienate anybody. We’re always very mindful of that relationship that that person has with the entity and we never want to cross a boundary. But one of the things I love is learning more from them than anybody ever expected to see, getting more data than certainly the client thought was possible, and answering more questions than they even had.

And that was kind of one of the exciting things. I know it’s something that Paul missed for his years when he stepped away from DJG was he wasn’t then able to take that data and do things with it. He’s such a storyteller and now he gets to go back to storytelling.

Samir Husni: Well, let me ask you now my two personal questions that if you read my blog, you will know what they are. Allison, if I come to visit you one evening unannounced, what do I catch you doing? Reading a book, having a glass of wine, cooking, watching TV?

Allison Duncan: Cooking dinner, because I love to cook. And generally there’s a ball game on. Right now it’s kind of spending time working on building a business.

Paul Sammon: I would probably also say there’s probably a ball game on. Today is a happy day in my life. The Yankees begin to play their first spring training game.  So this is my official first day of spring. And given that I also umpire baseball, basically the orbit of my life is pretty much 1st of March till around Halloween. It’s a lot of fun!

Allison and I find ourself in our day kind of doing all the work of the day. And then we find the last hour or so of it kind of reflecting on what are we going to look at tomorrow about the business. But we’re having fun with it.

Samir Husni: And what keeps you up at night for these days?

Paul Sammon: Trying to find the unique question we can pose to clients that closes the gap for them. We’re having a lot of great conversations. It’s about how do I help them understand that now’s the time to act? And what can we be doing right now to help you? There’s a lot. One thing we do sense in the market right now is there’s a little hesitation in things and just trying to help. Their needs are real. Those are urgent. And we just want to try and help that conversation along to good outcomes for them.

Allison Duncan: I’ll make the joke of it. It’s plane fares. You keep seeing planes tossing and turning and I have no fear of flying. And I’m like, ooh, really? Keeps me up at night. You know what? Honestly, the day is done. I’m kind of tired and I sleep. Good. And I don’t, I’m happy with that. That and occasionally your dog who decides he’s needing to occupy your side of the bed.

Samir Husni:  Thank you both.