“You can set a goal to run a marathon, and you can download a training regime, and you can go run the marathon. You can’t do that to invent the computer, or Twitter, or create amazing art. You can’t plot it. And to the extent you try to plot it, you shoot yourself in the foot, because you cut off the possibilities that lay before you.”

— Ev Williams

Ev Williams (@ev) is the co-founder and chairman of Mozi, a new social network that helps you connect in person with the people you care about. Over the past 25 years, Ev has co-founded several companies that have helped shape the modern internet—including Blogger, Medium, and Twitter. Ev is also the co-founder of Obvious Ventures, an investment firm that focuses on world-positive companies addressing major systemic problems. Ev grew up on a farm in Clarks, Nebraska, has two sons, and lives mostly in the Bay Area.

This episode was recorded live at Diggnation (diggnation.show), where digg.com was relaunched. Digg was recently acquired by its original founder, my friend Kevin Rose, and reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian, and they invited me along for all the fun and surprises as they celebrated the relaunch. Go to digg.com and sign up to get early access when invites go out.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.

This episode is brought to you by David Protein Bars 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar; Sundays for Dogs ultra-high-quality dog food; and Wealthfront high-yield cash account.

This episode is brought to you by David Protein Bars! I’m always on the hunt for protein sources that don’t require sacrifices in taste or nutrition. That’s why I love the protein bars from this episode’s sponsor, David. With David protein bars, you get the fewest calories for the most protein, ever. David has 28g of protein, 150 calories, and 0g of sugar. I was first introduced to David by my friend Peter Attia, M.D., who is their Chief Science Officer. Many of you know of Peter, and he does his due diligence. And David tastes great. Their bars come in six delicious flavors, all worth trying, and I’ll often throw them in my bag for protein on the go. And now, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show who buy four boxes get a fifth box for free. Try them for yourself at DavidProtein.com/Tim.

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Tim Ferriss receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage, LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. See full disclosures here.

Want to hear another fun live recording from Austin, TX? Check out my conversation with Kevin Rose:

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Ev Williams:

Obvious Ventures | Twitter | Medium | Instagram | Threads | LinkedIn

Concepts

Companies & Institutions

Technologies

Books

Movies & Shows

Events & Venues

People

Relevant Resources

SHOW NOTES

• [00:05:35] Kevin Rose starts the party like it’s 2004.
• [00:07:27] Ev’s first internet product.
• [00:08:54] How technology became social for Ev.
• [00:10:52] The simple idea behind Mozi.
• [00:12:05] Strategic quitting vs. sunk-cost perseverance.
• [00:18:36] How Odeo begat Twitter.
• [00:22:01] Twitter’s $11,000 SXSW 2007 inflection point.
• [00:23:45] Ev’s hopes for Mozi’s evolution.
• [00:25:02] Favorite books and information inputs.
• [00:30:45] Raising a generation to co-exist with AI.
• [00:33:12] Ev’s billboard.
• [00:35:56] How Ev learned to manage his feelings.
• [00:37:16] Facing strangers as an introvert with the Hoffman Process.
• [00:39:57] Recently adopted habits that have galvanized positive change.
• [00:42:44] The silver lining of being fired from Twitter.
• [00:45:18] Contemplating how the universe works with The One by Heinrich Päs.
• [00:47:04] How Ev stocks his reading list arsenal.
• [00:50:26] Big thoughts on a Medium regret.
• [00:52:47] Resisting the urge to bloat Mozi with superfluous features.
• [00:55:40] How Mozi balances privacy with utility.
• [00:57:40] Parting thoughts.

MORE EV WILLIAMS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“You can set a goal to run a marathon, and you can download a training regime, and you can go run the marathon. You can’t do that to invent the computer, or Twitter, or create amazing art. You can’t plot it. And to the extent you try to plot it, you shoot yourself in the foot, because you cut off the possibilities that lay before you.”
— Ev Williams

“The most creative force in the world is clearly nature, and it has no plan. It just tries shit.”
— Ev Williams

“I saw companies — in particular, products — as a creative process. It’s like writing a book, or painting a painting — you have to figure it out as you go. You don’t have it fully baked in your head from day one.”
— Ev Williams

“Remember when social used to mean getting together in real life, getting to know people? And now social is just this catchall word that kind of just means the internet.”
— Ev Williams

“I think humans, fundamentally, were wired to be deeply social, but that wiring was way before screens. And that wiring to be social, it didn’t happen in public. So Mozi is a very simple idea where we said, ‘Well, what would an actual social network look like?’ That’s what we’re building.”
— Ev Williams

“I think this idea of it’s okay to quit is underappreciated.”
— Ev Williams

“You don’t know what else there is until you clear your attention away from the thing that you’ve been struggling with.”
— Ev Williams

“Creative ideation is useful no matter what you do, ever.”
— Ev Williams

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for "Best of Apple Podcasts" three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it's been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.